Secret Life of Inventory
A show where we delve deep into the unseen world of inventory management, revealing the hidden mysteries that help small businesses (like you) optimize their workflow and succeed!
Secret Life of Inventory
From Home Business to a Growing Warehouse (ft. XXL Scrunchie & CO)
Join us as we chat with Tina Nguyen, the founder of XXL Scrunchie & Co. What began as a handmade Christmas gift quickly grew into a thriving business—one that even caught the attention of Dragon’s Den investors!
In this episode, Tina shares her journey from a mural artist to running XXL Scrunchie in a warehouse, the challenges she’s faced, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. We also dive into how she’s built a strong community around her brand and her thoughts on US tariffs and their impact on small businesses.
Tune in for an insightful conversation on growth, resilience, and entrepreneurship. Subscribe for more stories from business owners and industry leaders!
#xxlscrunchie #xxlscrunchieandco #smallbusiness #entrepreneurship #dragonsden #ustariffs
Follow and support Tina!
• xxlandco.com
• instagram.com/xxl.scrunchie
• tiktok.com/@xxl.scrunchie
• facebook.com/xxl.scrunchie
• ca.pinterest.com/xxlscrunchie/
0:00 - Teaser
0:17 - Intro
1:32 - What was life like before XXL Scrunchie & CO?
5:39 - How did you get into making scrunchies in the first place?
6:13 - At what point did you realize making scrunchies could become a business?
7:05 - What were those early days like—handmaking each piece, setting up the shop, and getting your first customers?
8:16 - What were some of the key milestones that motivated you to keep on going?
8:59 - How was it like working with family?
11:01 - What was it like to move into your first warehouse?
13:38 - How many people are on your team now?
13:45 - What was that transition like for you to expand your team?
15:06 - What are other challenges that you faced while managing a team?
15:41 - How do you manage your inventory and shipping?
17:27 - How do you manage your demand forecasting with trends?
18:11 - How did you know which products to expand?
19:18 - What was the process like to expand your product line?
19:43 - How did your inventory management shift?
20:22 - Do you fulfill your orders the same way?
21:13 - Was it for you to implement barcodes?
21:30 - Did you create your own barcodes?
22:05 - What software or tools do you recommend?
23:25 - How did you start sourcing your suppliers?
24:26 - What qualities do you look for in your fabrics?
25:01 - When did you decide to sell wholesale?
26:12 - Tina's negative wholesale experience
27:25 - How do you fulfill your wholesale orders?
28:04 - How do you approach content creation?
29:03 - How do you balance content and business?
29:52 - Do you find certain types of content work better than others?
30:20 - Can you share tips on how to build a strong community?
31:26 - Do you feel nervous sharing?
33:00 - Dragon's Den Experience
39:45 - Celebrating 5 years of XXL! What were the biggest lessons you learned?
41:15 - Where do you see the future of XXL?
42:07 - Any advice you would give to your younger self?
43:06 - US Tariffs: What were your initial thoughts on how it'll impact your business?
44:23 - How do you think you'll approach the shift?
46:04 - Would you raise your prices?
🎧 Listen to our Secret Life of Inventory podcast on Spotify:
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And then eventually my bedroom became like, there's boxes beside me and I had to, like, climb over things and sleep and wake up in boxes. Yes, I'd. Say that's an indication you need a bigger space. You're crawling over things. That was the big one. Hello everybody I'm. Jared. Hi, I'm Melinda, and welcome. Back to The Secret Life of Inventory. This is a show where we talk about all things inventory management, and we uncover the hidden mysteries that can help businesses like you optimize their workflow and succeed. Today, we have a very special guest all the way from Belleville, Ontario. Tina Nguyen. She's a founder of XXL scrunchie, and her journey started from humble beginnings, where she turned one of her mom's old t shirts into an oversized scrunchie as a Christmas gift for her cousin. From there, it grew into a full fledged business, and since then, she's amassed over a million followers across her socials, and she gained the interest of investors on CBC's hit reality show Dragon's Den. Yeah. Tina is. It's a growth is incredibly impressive. She started off just kind of a solo operation just in her apartment. Then she moved in with her parents to help her as she started to grow. And now she's in a giant warehouse where she manages a whole team of people. But, you know, beyond the brand, Tina is actually a creative entrepreneur that started off as a mural artist. So today we're going to kind of talk to Tina about her journey as a small business owner, how she started off, you know, maybe some tips and tricks for other business owners. And then we're going to end the episode off kind of talking about something that's very topical right now, and that's going to be about the US tariffs and how those might impact small businesses like Tina's. Welcome to the show, Tina. Thanks, guys. So before we get into, you know, all of the fun stuff from inventory and business operations and all that, why don't we kind of like rewind and go back to the very beginning, you know, like, what was life like for you before XXL, scrunchie and company? Um, so before XXL scrunchie, I was like, how far should we go back? When I was a baby, I um, well, I remember elementary school. I really loved art. That was my favorite class. I always had a sketchbook and same with high school. That was always my favorite. But I mean, my family, mostly my parents, obviously wanted me to be a doctor. They really encouraged that just because it was something they could like, see could be successful even back then. Typical Asian parents. Yes yes. Yes. Lawyers, doctors you know. Yeah. Yeah. They were like the ones you see as successful, which is true. But I wasn't in love with that and I wasn't passionate about that. And I remember I did I applied to art school like secretly I didn't tell anyone and I didn't get in. I don't think I got into any of my top choice schools, but I did end up going to University of Toronto. But I dropped out one week in because I was so overwhelmed, and I remember crying and calling my dad to move home. So he moved me back home. That same semester, I went to University of Ottawa and it took me like five years to graduate. I just and I think I failed like Intro to Psych. I just wasn't prepared for university. Life is such a drastic change. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know what I was doing or what I wanted to do. And by the time I graduated, I was like, okay, this is the end. Like, what do I do? And then I went back to college for graphic design. And then I had to explain to my parents, like, what do you want to go back to school? And then they're also like, what is graphic design? Like, how do you explain graphic design to your parents? Knew that you loved art, right? Yeah. So they always supported it and they were like encouraged me to go and they were happy about it and understood later. And from there I it was a three year program. So the last year, like I started building up clients actually for social media and designing logos. And while you're in school. Yeah, because I knew like I needed that for when I ended school to actually have something to show to work for another company. Smart building your portfolio. Yes. That was my goal the whole time, which is, I thought this whole time I wanted to work for a company, but then I didn't get all these internships. I applied for that. All my friends were applying for it. It's like, oh, you get to work at these music festivals and help build the branding. And then I did work at a marketing company when I was off one summer between the semesters. And then I remember being like, you don't get any creative freedom, like you're just doing you're designing a brochure for someone. And yeah, it's graphic design, but it's not like your own design. Yeah, it's like guidelines you have to follow confined to the box. Yes. And I was like, well, this is really strict and like, it's weird. I thought I wanted all these things, but then I didn't once I got them, and then I started painting murals in my own bedroom, like in my apartment. And I showed some of my clients, my social media clients that I was managing because they own some salons and spas. I was like, can I do this? And they said, yeah, and I started filming them. Yeah. So then my last year of college, I dropped out because I was starting to get clients. Mural clients reach out and I was like, hey, my homework is now over powering real work. Yeah, it's like, make money or spend too hard. Yeah, easy to like. I was doing like mock interviews at the end of college and I was like, but I'm already getting like, real clients, so I had to drop out. But it was like one day after the refund date, I was like, ah. Stuff happens. Yeah, yeah. And then I was doing, I was gonna go full time mural artist. I was going all in on this. I was so excited at so many, like, clients meeting up with me and like, reaching out and finding me, like, on Google and stuff. Oh, wow. But then it was that Christmas where I made a scrunchie for my cousin, and then that's when I. Scrunchies kind of overtook that because I was like, I need to go all in on this opportunity. How did you. Even start making scrunchies in the first place? Well, I was kind of making some for myself to put my hair up, and then I wanted to make one for my cousin because first of all, your dropout and then no money. So your college dropout student with no money, and then my cousin's, like, it's hard to get personal gifts for people or to buy people things that they already have. So I was like, I want to make gifts. So I made one out of my mom's old shirt, and I only made it really big and oversized because her hair is like so long. And then that's why I made the first scrunchie just as a gift. At what point did you realize that it could actually become a business? Um, well, that night when she opened her gift, I wasn't even in the same room, and I wasn't like, oh, you're gonna love it. I was just like, oh, whatever. She went up to me and was like, you made this. She was so amazed. She posted it on her accounts on social media, and already a bunch of people were like, where do I get one? How do I buy one? And she also owns a salon in Thunder Bay. It's called Vitality Beauty and Co and she's like, I can sell them there. So I already had sales technically. Hmm. That's nice. And her. Customers? Yeah, that's some great synergy actually. The fact that she has a salon. I mean, that's a perfect place to sell scrunchies to. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. She also is a business owner, so she could give me tips and was like, you can do this, like, just start. But I did say no. I was like, what do you mean, start a business? Like I'm trying to do my murals. Mhm. So it is scary at first starting something new right. You don't know what's going to happen. So what were those early days like. You know like getting those first customers. You know setting up your shop like what was that experience like for you? Um, looking back I look at it as a fun time. But in the midst of it, it was so stressful because I didn't know how to ship things. Um, I didn't I didn't have a car. I was living alone in my apartment, and just even getting to places was hard because I was in Toronto. Yeah, I had to, like, go on the bus with all my packages, and it was winter, so I had my park on everything. I'm sweating. Yeah. And then I got to the post office to mail, like, my first shipment of packages. And I'm waiting in this huge line, and I'm also drenched because I'm sweating from getting there. And then I get to the front and like, it costs like $20 to mail something like this little within Toronto. And I was like, oh, this is so stressful. But like, how else do I ship? And that was the only way I knew how to ship. Oh, geez. So I just kind of like learning through trial and error. And then eventually people were like giving me tips and like, you know, you can use this instead. And I was like, oh, I can actually ship straight from Shopify and print my labels at home, drop them off. So there's a lot of like mistakes at the beginning. And I see how people help you, though. It's always tough running a business alone. Yeah. I mean, there must have been moments where you felt like giving you up or it's like really tough. So what were some of the key milestones that motivated you to keep on going? Um, luckily it was only I think I lasted a month alone until I called my mom and I was like, mom, this other business like, has their mom helping, like, can you help? And she's like, yeah, just move home. And I was like, okay, because they were just retiring. They owned a restaurant for like so many years, and they just sold it. And we're just about to retire, which is like perfect timing for me. So Anymore. So their business owners too then, so they can probably give you some tips and tricks, I'm sure. Yeah for sure. It seems like you have a lot of business owners in your family. Yes. There's more than. You're born to be a business owner. Yeah. I saw it growing up. Yeah. Yeah. How is it like working with your family? Um, at first it was. There wasn't even, like, a thought about it. Just when I moved home the first night, I had to get a rental car and, like, drive all my stuff home. And I was still paying rent here. And by the time I got home, I just, like, unloaded. And that was like the first night off I took in, like a month. Yeah. And I remember being so glad to be home. And then the next morning it was just like chaos because I had to catch up on orders. I was selling scrunchies that weren't made yet because I didn't want to lose the sales, but I knew I had the fabric I see, and then I had to catch up my mom and dad on packaging. And then one tip someone from the post office gave me was, you can put your packages in these little bags, and if they're thin enough, they can ship for like $2. Oh wow. Okay, so we are. Putting them in sandwich bags because that's all we. Had. And then the air would seep out and then we would like seal the package completely. And then we had to open them all up to seal them back. Because if they're too thick they'll deny it. So I remember there was like this table full of packages, like we're seeping out again. And then I was like, started crying. And I was like, why are they. And they're like, redo it. And I just remember being so stressed and like putting that stress on my parents. But I'm so glad I had their help. There's no way I could have grown at all without. Parents work for you and your brother. And yeah, I think I saw you mentioned how you're on an uncle's also work. Yeah, they're not like my direct aunt and uncle, but they're like. So my brother's wife, it's her aunt and uncle. Okay. But, like, still like extended family. Yeah. Basically family. Yeah, yeah. You see them all coming up in your content a lot. I think one of my, my favorite characters that I see is your dad. He seems like such a sweet, sweet guy. And he. He seems to always be doing, like, whatever he can for you. You know, you see him actually working on scrunchies with by hand, and you'll see him, like bringing in boxes that he's sourcing from other people, you know, which is just like, it's just awesome to see that kind of help, you know. Mhm. So I mean you started off, you know, just doing this solo operation in your tiny little 400 square foot apartment. You're now, you know, in this big warehouse, can you kind of give us some insights into like, like what kind of triggered the the thought, you know, I need a bigger space. I need to move into a bigger warehouse. Was there any specific moment or did it kind of just happen gradually over time? And what was that like moving into that warehouse? It was it did happen pretty quick because after it was a year and a half, we moved into our first warehouse. And I remember because it was eight months in, I took over my parent's living room basically, and then my bedroom too. There's just boxes everywhere. And then their basement just kind of needed like a little renovation. They had so much like storage down there, but it was like two big empty rooms. So then it was nine months in, we renovated and we're working in their basement. But then my mom was still cutting fabric upstairs, so it was still like a whole house taken over, except for the kitchen and the laundry room and stuff like that. And then eventually my bedroom became like, there's boxes beside me and I had to, like, climb over things and. Sleep and wake up in boxes. Yes, I'd. Say that's an indication you need a bigger space. So crawling over things, that. Was the big one. I know it's all black, but then I could tell it was like taking a little toll on my mom because she, like, needs her space. She's very organized. And I also wanted my own space because we just kept, like, running into. Yeah. And then I was going to rent, like a home and then live there and then work out of there. But then we're so lucky we found this warehouse that was near our house, and it was like a great price, really big space. My dad was so nervous because he came to look. He's like, no, get the smaller one. I was like, this one's like smaller than your house. What do you. Mean? But he was so nervous because it's like you're signing five years. Well, that is a. It's such a risk. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But now it's like, oh, we're five years and two months. Yeah, it's just crazy. Time goes by so quick. Yeah. You bet on yourself though. You gave yourself room to grow, which is important. I mean, last thing I think you would want would be to have to move again, right? Yeah. We did move. Again. Oh, jeez. Okay. Second warehouse. Yeah. It was. I think it was like we only in that first warehouse. It was 2000ft²for like, nine months. And they had this other storage room that they locked up. And I was like, can we open that and use it? And then we'll pay for the extra square footage and then they're like, oh, we have this other space. So they let me look. And that's nice that they referred you to a different ones in the same building. Yeah. Oh that's perfect. Yeah. And they let me like customize it to like what size I needed. And I could build little rooms within it. And then I moved. So we were only nine months in that current space. And then we moved to the next one and got to upgrade. It's like I think it's 5000ft² right now. Wow. They're very. Cool. So when you first started, you were a one man team doing everything, and now you have this whole team behind you. So how many people are on your team now? There's eight, including myself, and then half of it's my family. And what was that transition like for you to expand your team? Um. Looking back, I would have done it differently because I'm such, like, a friendly person. And then I was so used to working with my family and then my not not my cousin, but basically family again, Cindy was always there helping me during the pandemic. My best two best friends were helping me during the pandemic, so I was used to working with friends. Yeah, and then I didn't realize, like, you need to be like someone's boss and someone's leader. You can't just be their friend. There has to be like a boundaries. Yeah. So I didn't realize that until I was hiring two for new people because I hired our seamstress who's still with us. And then I hired my best friend's younger sisters and their friends. So I had these three high school students. And then I really I didn't realize I needed to do structure, and there should be weekly meetings and that they can't read my mind. I was like, why are. They doing it like this? Obviously they don't know. I have to say things. And I wasn't used to like devoting time to other people, but I needed to learn to delegate as well and not, like micromanage and explain things carefully and take time to like, nurture them as well. But it was hard because, like, I need my time to do all these things, but then like. Juggling for sure. Yeah. So time management and like being a leader was like a big lesson to learn. What would you say are the other main challenges you faced while growing and managing the team? Um, I think now it's like work life balance. It's hard because I was working during the pandemic, I didn't have any social obligations to feel guilty about. I could just work crazy hours and not feel bad about it. But now it's like, I don't feel bad going to events, but I just feel hard being pulled away from work, right? Because there's just like it's a never ending to do list. Yeah, just set that boundary for yourself. Like this is business. This is personal. Mhm. Yeah. So I mean obviously managing inventory is a huge part of any goods based business. I'm sure you probably understand that. It seems like you're seeing a lot of your content. You just have massive amounts of inventory that you have to take care of. So I was just wondering kind of like how how do you manage your stock levels? How do you make sure that you know everything is getting shipped efficiently and effectively? Well, for inventory, it's just hard. I wish someone else could do it because it's my least favorite thing, because we have scrunchies being made, and then we have scrunchies that are like the tubes before you put the elastic in. So we have like all this tube inventory. And then we have like pre-cut fabric inventory. So you have your raw materials and your finished products and lots of things to worry about. Yeah. And then we also have like that stuff at my aunt and uncle's house that I have to manage. They mostly. Yeah. Yeah. Multiple locations you got to worry about. Yeah. And then like multiple people working on different things, I need to make sure they're not all sewing the same thing. And then we have to keep track of what's running low to make sure we prioritize sewing that. So it's a lot. But with order fulfillment, I think we have that pretty organized because they all come through Shopify. Okay. And then we have this like just this spreadsheet where we write down the order we left off on last because we y so. We have a thing. That we are. Constantly talking trash about spreadsheets. Oh, well, it's a Google. Sheet just because I can manage it from home. And no, no shade. We, uh, we used. To write this down on Google. Sheets too, but, uh, we always prefer inventory management software, which is, uh, we obviously we're biased towards it, but anytime someone mentioned spreadsheets, we kind of. Give each other look like. That's why I don't have any problem spreadsheets. But he. Does. Yeah. I just, uh. No. Yeah. I was like, maybe I need that. Thank you. So I mean, you work in obviously fashion and apparel in that industry obviously relies a lot on like trends and, you know, seasonality and stuff like that. So how do you kind of manage your demand forecasting with those things in mind? I think I've just been lucky because I don't I don't forecast trends. I don't look for them. I just feel like we just look for cute fabric and then we plan it ahead. Like this Valentines drop. It actually sold out and I wasn't expecting that. That's awesome. And then we have spring collections coming up. So we plan for seasons okay. Like we do colors and stuff for seasons, but we don't plan specific trends. And I'm lucky my mom actually picks out some fabric. Oh nice. Hers usually sell out first. Oh really? Oh. So she's got like the magic touch then that. Yeah. Very cool. So XXL scrunchie originally started with just scrunchies, but since then you've expanded your product line to include hair claws, satin pillowcases, and even dog accessories. So how did you decide like which products to expand? Was it something you always wanted to do? I knew I wanted to expand, so that's why we called it XXL and Co, just like the real company name, just so it wasn't tied down to scrunchies. And then we did expand to other scrunchy sizes. Once I saw like, oh. Like people don't just wear the big size, so I want to be more inclusive. And then with hair claw clips, my friend suggested it and I was scared because I thought like no one would wear scrunchies anymore if I sold hair claw clips. But it's like our second best next to scrunchies now and then with the dog products. That just kind of came because I got a dog. Yeah. Bruce. Yeah, my other favorite character. Yeah. And then with we did beach towels with my artwork and then tote bags just because I was starting to use things. So I kind of. Use them to. Carry launch things as I see with things I use so that it's like feels a bit more authentic. Yeah. So what was that whole process like with expanding your product line? Um, it was a little nerve wracking because you're always taking a risk and you can't just sell like one item. You have to, like make a couple things to sell. So it's always a risk and a chance to take. So I mean obviously that's going to expand your your SKUs, your product offerings quite a bit. So did that change how you kind of, you know, your processes like in-house, did you change how you manage your inventory, how you filled your orders, or did you maybe set things in place that were kind of scalable in the beginning? I think it changed because we did add bar barcodes to all of our products. Yay! We love barcodes. SKUs. Lots of. SKUs. Yeah, which I never did before because we would just sell scrunchies and I would memorize where everything was like, I would just we wouldn't even organize it in alphabetical order. But now it is, and then it's organized by SKU. And then once the product started growing so much and the team, I was like, okay, they can't operate like me. I need to like put systems in place so people can be trainable as well. So it just kind of grew as we started getting more products. Do you still fulfill your orders kind of all the same way since, uh, since that? Um, no. Before I was like, reading, I would look on the iPad at the order and I would memorize the order, and then I would go grab it, and then I would go look at it again. Okay, I missed. One and then go stab it. Which is so bad. I did that for so long. And then we started printing off packing slips, which had like a list so I could walk around with that. But I would still walk around with it and just like grab. So if someone ordered two things, even if we circled it, I would only grab one. I would always do that. So many customers would be like, I ordered two. Why did I get one? So lots of mistakes. And that's when we figured out the scanning system that we have now to like scan to verify each item. So we'll scan something, pick it and then scan and it makes an error noise. If we scan the wrong item. It takes off a lot of mental load. Yes. Yeah. Was it hard to implement those barcodes initially or was it. Kind of I remember I. Kept googling like away and then I was like, oh, this is too hard. Like I can't figure it out. And then finally I was like, okay, I'm going to sit down. Took like two days max of fully figure it out, maybe took a day to like, print all the barcodes off and like, get the tape them on every item. Um. Did you just create your own barcodes or custom barcodes? Or did. You go through. A Shopify. App? Oh, okay. Very cool. Okay. So you just generated all your own. Oh very cool. Nice. Yeah. I didn't know it was. Could be that easy. Yeah. Because people always message me. They're like, where did you buy your barcodes? I was like, buy. Why would I buy them? You just like, make them up. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot. You don't know when you're first starting a business. So just a lot of questions. Yeah. It just they seem so intimidating. Yeah. But then once you sit down and do it, which is like kind of story of everything on my to do list, I just sit down and just do it. And it's not so bad. Entrepreneurship like you know. Yeah, it as you go. So other than barcodes, are there any other like tools or software things that you would use that you would can't live without for your business? Um, for sure. Shopify, because that just hosts all of our inventory. That's how people place orders and it goes through on our site. And then we use ship station, which is how we scan to verify our products and print out all those packing slips. And then we use each shipper now to ship our items, and they give us discounted rates and they can actually ship worldwide. So when the Canada Post we should. Kind of post like, yeah, I. Used to ship with them for years. And then it was that following summer I switched to E shipper to get better rates and to be able to actually ship worldwide because our customer reached like people in Vietnam were paying like $100 just to buy one scrunchie. I was like. Oh, they could probably support you. Yeah, they would probably buy more and support us more if it was cheaper for shipping. Yeah. So I finally switched to E shipper, which was it's just so hard to switch things when you're already using it. Yeah a system and it's you had to do like training and like you have to enter these things in differently. But now I. Worked out like the perfect time. Yes, I know, I. Can't imagine switching during that time. I wouldn't be like crying because it was Black Friday. So it's like. Oh God, most. Orders ever come in that time. Yeah, it's definitely not the time you want to be changing any processes. Definitely not. So I mean, why don't we talk about a little bit about something that a lot of small business owners kind of ask us about it. And that's. Working with suppliers, you know, I'm sure it was. You came from a world of being a mural artist. So finding suppliers, manufacturers, things like that was probably really, really hard. Um, can you kind of take us through, like how you started sourcing those to begin with? Yeah, at first it seemed like impossible because it just seems like big businesses have access to these, but everyone kind of does. So when I first sourced fabric, I went to the fabric store, just the local one. And then I remember like going up to the manager lady and being like, can I buy like a lot of these? And can we get like a good price? Yeah. And then it never really worked out that way. And then I saw on the edge of the fabric label like the manufacturer. And then I found out how to contact head office. Oh, it's a direct. Yes. And then that's very smart. So much money. And I was like, Thank God I bought that roll of fabric to find their name. And then they're just in Toronto as well. So very cool. So nice and local like that. Yeah, yeah. So when you're sourcing things like, you know, your fabrics and all your raw materials and everything. Is there something that you look for specifically? Like, is it like quality? Is it cost? Is it, uh, design? Yeah. Um, it's definitely like the material and the feel because it has to, like, feel good as well because it's right on their hair. Right. And then definitely cost because we can only spend so much to be able to make so much. Yeah. You want to keep those margins. Of course. Yeah. Mhm. And then definitely sourcing. So I'm glad we were able to find our supplier in Toronto. Yeah. It's very I love that their uh local supplier. It's very cool. So I think why don't we move on to wholesale actually um obviously selling wholesale. It opens up this whole new avenue of, you know, potential revenue, a lot of new customers and whatnot. But of course, with that, there's challenges that come along with that. So can you maybe walk us through, you know, when you decided to sell wholesale and you know, how it may be shifted or reshaped your kind of your business? Yeah, I was lucky because my cousin, like, basically made me start as wholesale. Because she bought. Like 60 the. First within the. First two weeks. And I was like, oh my God, I have to make all these scrunchies. And. Then cheese. What made me think to reach out to my previous two mural clients that were also salon owners. Yeah. And they're like, I just texted them a photo and the scrunchies were just like on my bed. And it was like, didn't look professional at all. And I was like, you want to buy these? They're like, yeah, we'll take 30, we'll take 40. And I was like, oh no, mom. I need your help. So I kind. Of trickled in that way, luckily. And then I saw the benefits of it because customers were finding me through the salon in person because we're just online. We had nowhere that could be in person. So how you found that fabric person, they found you through this? Yeah. So it kind of gave me like my own storefront without all the risk of it all. Yeah, that's very cool. But I did have one. I forgot about this. I did have one. Like, not great wholesale opportunity. She was buying like so many and they were selling out like within the day she would buy like 60 or 70 at a time. And I would hang them in like a plastic garbage bag on my front door because it was a pandemic and she would go pick them up, but she it was just like such high demand. We couldn't keep up. So she felt stress from her customers being disappointed. And she was trying to get scrunchies before they even launched because we would do limited drops and she would want them before they would launch. And all this was communicated over email. So it was just like they misunderstood me. And they they just like, weren't able to understand, like I need to put like our online sales first because we I need to prioritize us first. And I just couldn't make enough for her at the time. So that was one of the most stressful ones. And now I just really communicate, like, we might not be able to fulfill your whole order like we are handmade. And I just really like emphasize that now is a lesson learned on communicating. And then I have a call. Now if they if I feel like any tension. Yeah that's violation through text. So yeah calling is probably easier. Mhm. So when you're fulfilling your your wholesale orders Is it? The same process is when you're doing your your directed customer orders. It's kind of old school, so I still have them send me a list with their quantity. And then I need to review to make sure we have enough inventory, because sometimes they'll pick an item and they'll be like two left and I'll be like, oh, do you want to pick a different one than that one? Put yourself in the same situation. Yes. So they still have to send it. We don't have like a wholesale portal, but that would be cool one day. But it's just so hard because. Yeah, it's just so hard because our stuff's moving in and out. Because they could wait, like, three days and we could have that color made for them. But we can't put that on a portal. Right? Yeah. So SSL scrunchie and Co has a huge online presence. And a big part of it is how you authentically show up online all the time. And you do an amazing job at posting consistently. So I was just wondering how do you approach content creation? Um, well, back. Then I thought I had to post everything like perfect, and I remember posting like a scrunchie on my wrist and like I needed a blank background and the lighting needed to be perfect. Product shots. Yeah. Yeah. But that's like total opposite of what I think anyone should do because I just started to document what we were doing. And then when I looked at it like that, it was less of a chore and I was like, wait, I'm already doing this, why don't I just film it ? Yeah. So I just try to look at everything. That everything is content. Yeah. I mean. You come across the authenticity I think of your content is, I think what really shines through, you know, you you come across as a very real person. You're everyone in your orbit seems very real. And they seem to be, you know, enjoying themselves. So I think it is contagious. It's really more relatable to like you show you in the real work environment versus like trying to make everything perfect. Yeah. Since content creation is a core part of your business, how do you balance it to like, do you block out your calendar like this is content time? This is business time? Or do you just let it flow naturally? Um, well. I if there's like a launch coming up, I try to make sure I make these certain videos in time for the launch because some things are time sensitive. But then there's some things I just like. I'll be scrolling and get inspo, and then I just like put it in my little notion notes of to make later. So I don't really. I try to time blog if needed, but not really. But I try to. I do like the tasks at work I have to do first, like make sure the inventory is ready, make sure the team's up to date with their meetings, and then I go into content with my spare time. Yeah, that makes sense. Like the admins first and then you have more time to play I guess afterwards. And then create. And then from there it just kind of like flows. Yeah. But do you find. Like certain types of content work better than other types or. Um, I don't know. I feel like I'm still experimenting, like I know the stories and the packaging do best, but then sometimes I'll post like a random one that I made within like two seconds, and then it will just blow up. So it's so like unpredictable. And I'm still so confused with. Algorithms like what you like. Right. And then see how it goes. Yeah, yeah. But it's mostly like about consistency. Like that's like the main thing. I mean you have a huge community and you even have your committee involved in naming your product. So do you have any tips on how to build a strong community? Um, I think just not only asking for their input, but sharing. Like the losses or mistakes I share a lot of mistakes I've made. I even I just posted a story because we have our packager who's unforeseen circumstances. She's away for like a month and I have this trip planned. I leave tomorrow that I've had planned for a while, but I didn't know anyone would be a way to not pack orders. So I had a I just posted to my story. Like, guys, I was thinking of cancelling this trip because we've never not packed orders for like over a week and like there might be a customer that will cancel because they might not want to wait two weeks and then wait for the shipping time. So that was hard to balance. Um, so I just feel like sharing everything with them, like even if you're struggling to understand person to. Yeah, I think everyone goes through hardships and exactly failures. I mean, they're learning experiences ultimately, and other people can learn from your failures. Which is better for them, I guess, right? Posting that. Stuff. It's almost like at first I was and then now it's kind of like therapy. Like free therapy. Yeah, they give me advice back to and then they're like, still rooting me on. Do you find that people within that community do you find there's other small business owners like you as well? Yeah, there's so many small business owners out there that message me, and they even send me things from their small business and they're like, help me. Yeah, they're. Like, you made me start. And I post quite a bit of my tips now on how I started my channels and like how I pack orders because I get so many questions like, can you help me do this? And I was like, there's no way I can type this all out. So I make videos instead. And then this kind of actually inspired me to start mentorship later this year. Oh, that's maybe. Do like 1 to 1 calls. Or maybe if they're nearby they can come in person. So I really want to start that to help people. Yeah that'd be. Nice. Yeah. It's very cool how we found you. Well, Jared found you through a barcoding video. Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. One of your barcoding videos is, like, popping off. It's. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's doing really well. I know the one. Yeah. So, yeah, we I mean, we love barcodes. We have barcoding built right into our software. So like, we talk about it a lot. We have actually one of our episodes in the first season is all about barcodes. Yeah. Yeah. So um, and it's really popular. People love it. They, um, like you said, it's setting up a barcode system is very daunting in the beginning, so we'd like to break it down just a couple clicks. Exactly right, if you think about it. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, we want to make it more manageable and help, you know, like you said, smaller business owners as well on their journey. So yeah, it's cool that you're doing the same thing. Yeah. So next up we want to talk to you about your appearance on Dragon's Den. So when you were first approached by the producer to apply for the show and then you got casted, what was that moment like for you in your business? Um, I remember that exact day because I went to the gym and then I didn't bring a change of clothes and my gym's at my work, so I was like, okay, I have to wear my sweaty clothes all day? And then I got a call, and I. I hate answering calls where I don't know who it is. And I just googled the number right away after. And no caller ID either. It's just like. It was just a number. But then say one of the dragons. No. Yeah. I was like, oh, it's probably spam. I get so many spam calls or people like, it's hard to hang up and say no to people because they're like trying to sell you things all the time. So when I googled the number, it said Dragon's Den producer, and I was like, oh. And then I called back. I was like, oh, sorry. I made up some excuse. And she's like, do you have a couple minutes to talk? And I was like, like, I can't say no. Yeah. So then we had a ten minute call. She asked me a couple questions and she's like, okay, do you want to come in next week? Oh God. It's super. Fun. And I was like, what do you mean like to the producers, right? She's like, no to the dragons. And I was like, but like, no, I'm supposed to go to the producers first and she's like, no, you're ready, let's go. And I was like. Cast it on the spot. Yeah. Wow. And then I couldn't say no. But I remember being like, I don't want to say no, but why five days? Like, can I not have more time? She's like, he's the only time that will work. So just had five days notice. I didn't really have time to be stressed, even though I was. I just had to like, prepare. Yeah, I didn't. Even have my full script ready of what to say. I needed to memorize all these numbers to be prepared because I'm like, putting my whole business and reputation. Was that your first. Time pitching to someone? Oh, yeah. First time ever. Yeah. And it's to the Dragons of all people for a first. You know, that's quite a daunting for sure. I remember seeing your clip and I felt so proud of you, even though I didn't know you personally. I'm like, oh, yeah, you did amazing. Yeah. Thank you. So I mean, people for the audience, is there any can you spill any t of some backstage things or anything or anything you learned from being on TV? Yeah, I definitely learned that if you try and you're like, life is on the line. If that's how I thought about it, I was like, I'm gonna die. If I don't do good. Like it could be over. It was like, do or die mentality. And I just kept practicing and practicing. And then luckily I was the last one to go that day. So I had all day to practice and then watch. The other people pitch or just waiting that I could. I had my own little booth, so I remember like facing the wall so I wouldn't see people walk by behind the curtain and just staying focused because I was like, make use of my time. Like, this is my one shot. So I was a little nervous, but I was so glad I could go last it, really prepare. And then it was actually quite calm back there. And then before we went on stage, this girl walked me to like the loading zone, I guess before you go up. And I was like, are you leaving ? And she's like, no, I don't have to. I was like, okay, can you stay with me? And I was like. My boyfriend told me to do this, like breathe in one nostril and then breathe out the other. And she was doing it with me and she's like, okay, try this one. So we were doing like, these breathing exercises together. Yeah, it actually because my heart was going like crazy. And then I was doing that and then it went all went away. Very cool. That's a good tip for sure. Yeah. So for anyone going on TV, just breathe. Yeah. Just breathe. And it was. Actually like. Quite quiet on set because the show, it's like all this music and like these zooms and all like this, but it was like, quiet and chill and yeah, it was watching it. Back. You presenting it in real life versus the edit like what was the difference or like when you, um. I was in there for like 40 minutes, but the edit on TV I think was seven. Oh wow. That is a lot of time to edit out. Yeah. And then there was one point where I wanted to make a call, and then they just told me to turn around, and I was waiting for them to tell me to go into the booth, but then they're like, okay, turn back around. And then the dragons were like, okay, what's your decision? And I was like, don't I get my call? What do you mean? I get my call? Like, they told me, I got my call. And she's like, aren't you the full owner? Why do you need a call? And I was like, my cousin's like the finance guy. Like, I want to talk to them. Yeah. And then they're like, okay, you can make your call. And I was like, oh my God. And I had his number in both of my pockets written down. Scared I would lose one. I was so nervous I was like, I need like I can't leave to go get his number. And I remember taking a photo of his number and being like, this is it, right? Just to make sure. So I called him. And then I also remember the producer saying I was allowed to be repeated back the offers. Okay. Because I did get like I think it was three offers. And I remember I was memorizing them as they were saying them, but just in case, I just wanted them to recall it back to me. Just like there's a lot. To soak in when you're on. Yeah, just one last thing to know and it's a. Big decision to make on the spot. Yeah. I remember the lady being like, no, we have to memorize them yourself. And I was like, but someone also said, like, like they said I could get this call. And they they said that you would rephrase them. So then I was like, whatever. I kind of memorize them. So I just said it anyways. So those were like little blips that were like caught me off guard. Do you think your decision would have changed if you didn't make that call? Um. I don't know, actually, because I remember wanting to, like, come back and be like, oh, I'll ask for like 5% more. But then my cousin being like, in the grand scheme of things like, that's not a big deal. And then it kind of puts you like, I just wanted to accept the already good offer. Yeah. So I think I would have definitely gone for the same person, but I don't know. I don't know if I would have just accepted or like it almost seems like they're you're encouraged to like go back just for like drama. Yeah. Right. So even the episodes, maybe they always go back. They don't just accept. Yeah. Felt pressured in my mind like socially to do that. You really have to have like a strong sense of self or like confidence to like, yeah. Or like sway to the direction that they want you to. Yeah. Yeah. So how much of a role did the investor play in your business afterwards? So we just went back and forth. I sent like my financials. And then I think it was like six months later that she got back to me and said we weren't going to move forward, but she was going to offer mentorship because she didn't see us as a good fit. And she was like, I think you'll do great on your own. And then in my mind, I was like, okay, because secretly I didn't know what it would really mean to have an investor right? Then I would need to make a board of directors. I would need to draw up more legal contracts, and then I would lose a lot of freedom. Yeah. It's like another thing you have to figure out. Yeah, yeah. Someone breathing down your neck. Yeah, but I did want to see it through to see what it would be like to see, like, if it would get to that, I would want to weigh out pros and cons. Mhm. So you just celebrated five years in business. Congrats. And oh you actually were in the shirt. Oh nice. Okay. Yeah I saw your story where you made that shirt. Yeah. No edition t shirt right. Yeah. And you said like each flower represents a year in business. This is super cool. And then I think it says XXL is five at the end of that leaf. Very cool. Very cool for you to design that t shirt. Um, not that long. Like maybe I had the idea one day. And then I think a month later, I drew it out in like a day. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So when you reflect back on your five years, what were some of the biggest lessons that you've learned? Oh, I was like, there's so many I think for sure. Like being a boss over a friend is a huge thing when you're hiring people and just posting things authentic to you and not trying to be like somebody else, but then like, make the most use of your time and don't be afraid to talk to the camera. Just kind of just do your tasks and try not to get because I would get. So whenever I stress now and before I would be over thinking of all the things I have to do because I'm already like, oh, I haven't ordered Valentines for next year, what am I going to do? Oh, I think you're way too far into the future. Yeah. But even though. You do have to think that way to make it in time and stuff like that, but I try not to stress over things too much because it'll work out. And just like, keep up with your task now instead of losing that time stressing, it's hard. So what about, like, the future ? Where do you where do you see your company? Kind of in five years from now? Um, I hope that we grow our products even more. And then I'm kind of scaling back to doing our limited drops because I was trying. This is this is also a huge lesson. You don't need to like Overstock and you don't need to like it's okay if you sell out. Because back when I lived with my parents and we were selling out of all those fabrics where I would just buy at the fabric store, I was like, oh, I wish I could buy unlimited, but I actually bought so much of our swim fabric, and we're sitting with so much of it because I didn't realize, like, it's okay if it sells out, like you're just building the hype for the next. Yeah. But I would wish to have more just to have more sales, but it's okay if it sells out. So I wish I told myself that like two years ago when I ordered all this excess fabric. Mhm. Is there any advice that you'd give to your younger self? Um, just to keep following your passion. And if you don't like something like I went to school for psychology for so long, I didn't hate it, but it wasn't my interest. Your calling? Yeah, and I did that for five years, so I feel like life would have been so different if I just went straight into art. Do you feel like. Psychology helped play a role in your business? Like understanding? Yeah. Customer. Maybe. Good. That's a. Great question. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely did. It definitely makes me more like empathetic to other people, even just my relationships in the real world. I feel like I can understand someone else's side a bit more when they're feeling sad or upset or like, really happy. I feel like that's given me that skill, which is really useful because our customer service is mostly me and people always are like, your customer service is great, and I think it's because I really understand and like feel for the other people if they have an issue. Um. That's awesome. That's huge. So we're going to end off the episode. We're going to talk about something that's very, very topical right now. And of course, um, it's going to be the US tariffs. So obviously we know that the Trump administration has announced this 25% tariff across the board for all goods coming from Canada. So and Mexico obviously as well. So did you want to kind of walk us through kind of what your you know, how how you reacted when you heard that news. Um, you know, how you think it might impact your business. So whenever I see these things come up, I just kind of ignore them until it becomes like, oh, I have to do something about it. Because people kept, like chiming in and asking. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, what am I supposed to really do? And then I looked into it, and then I looked at our customer base. And 47% of orders in the last year was directly to the US. Wow. Capital business. Yeah. And then I was like, panicking again. Overthinking. Like, what am I going to like, what would I do without half those sales? Like, I wouldn't have been able to keep like the team and to grow like half sales being just gone like that. Scary. And plus, like, happier. Yeah. Team, like you said, is like your family too, right? Yeah. Stress. So it was a lot to think about losing all of that. But then I realized, like I pay duties on some things that I ordered to. So I realized like it wouldn't just all go away just like that. Mhm. How do you think you'll approach the shift. Well I think I heard do you guys hear on the news that it's not happening. Well I mean I know it's postponed um for 30 days. I haven't heard anything since then. I think someone sent me an article and I think it said it's only for like aluminum right now. So that's actually an additional, uh, tariff. So he's introduced aluminum and steel tariff. That is actually going to be why he's very confusing person. Yeah. And what was really bad about that one too is um, that's going to be compounded. Right. So the other ones 25% across everything. And he introduced a separate one for steel and aluminum. That's actually going to be compounded on top of that. So steel and aluminum effectively is going to be tariffs at a 50% rate, which is, you know, pretty crazy. And of course he's talking about putting 100% tariffs on cars coming out of Canada. 100% tariffs as well. Yeah. So he's getting pretty wild with the with the tariffs right now. So I mean time will tell if this does sort itself out. But you know we really uh I think as Canadians it's really made us realize how we do need to diversify who we do business with. You know, um, can't really depend on anyone, it seems like, these days. So it's it's good to diversify, for sure. But I did see, like, small businesses. I saw a bunch of posts. So like, we want to support Canadian made and other small businesses in Canada. But like if they're supporting one small business, some of them do get products from the US. Yeah. Like they can't make their products from scratch. So they source as well from like maybe China and US, but then that other small business that wants to support them suddenly can't because then their prices are going up. Yeah. So it's like this huge ripple effect, even if you're still trying to support. If it was to happen, like, would you raise your prices? I don't know. I feel like, I don't know, I saw someone suggest that I should do discounts to the US because then it like offsets. I would rather do that than raise because then we would lose maybe more customers because it's a. Very effective pricing strategy as well. Right? So I mean. Because then like our community would still be struggling with all the price increases everywhere else. I wouldn't want to like add to that. Mhm mhm. Well hopefully it all works out in the end I know. Yeah. It's just like a huge risk. Like you really never know. Being a small business owner I think. Most people small businesses and large businesses alike are very much against the the tariffs. They hurt both sides of the aisle like we mentioned raising prices and everybody. Yeah their benefits. Yeah. There's no one that really benefits. It doesn't seem like I if there is someone I haven't heard about it yet to be perfectly honest. And I think historically tariffs haven't worked in the past. Right. So I'm not really sure what to. What the the angle is here, but hopefully it works itself out. Hopefully it is just a negotiating tactic because yeah, the the hurt is going to be felt in the US as well as here is, you know, like people are going to end up like you potentially would have been forced to to raise your prices. Other people are going to be having to force to do that as well. So realistically these tariffs are just going to be taxed on the consumer. Right. It's just a consumer tax essentially an extra consumer tax. And I don't think anyone really wants that. You know. Um. I did receive some messages and orders coming in after I made a post about like not complaining, but just like acknowledging the tariff situation. And I got some orders and the note said, like, hey, I placed an order because I want to support you. Um, I'm living in the UK right now, but I'm from the US. I'm sorry to hear like, wow. So people were already supporting because of that. So that kind of made me see, like, oh, we might survive it. Yeah. I mean, your community pulls through. Exactly. Yeah. It's all about supporting the community. And hopefully, you know, our government will support businesses like yours who potentially could be impacted by this? I think most Canadians would definitely support something like that. Mhm. So that's it for the show. Tina, thank you so much for joining us today and sitting down and chatting with us. It was really great to, you know, get an inside look at your business and how you've been managing and your journey and everything. And for listeners who want to learn more about you, where can they go to find you? They can find us on almost every channel. So our YouTubes XXL scrunchie, our Instagrams XXL Dot scrunchie, and our TikTok and our Facebook page and our Pinterest page. Awesome. We'll have all the links to Tina's channels in the description box below, so make sure to go follow and support. And uh, please, if you like this episode, give us a like subscribe all the things share with your friends, co-workers, or whoever. Thanks so much everybody. We'll see you in the next episode. Okay? Bye, everybody.